Plot twist: MB&F actually reached out after our SP One critique! Turns out their strategy is more nuanced than "chasing volume" - they're creating gateway drugs to convert normies into tribe members. Sometimes poking the bear leads to the best conversations!
I’m glad you did this update and shared the transparency. Well done to you for initiating and to MB&F for reaching out.
A lot of people feel like some independent brands focus on increasing production because of pressure (we had a DB debate before) but I feel good that some are still sticking to their values and strategies.
Okay, i just read this and my comment on the previous piece was spot on.. this is just broadening MB&F.
No matter what @Max, this single exchange is a better press release on the SP1 than the sum total of all the repetitive crap I’ve read in the traditional media.. take this approach next time.
Hehe I was being silly! You always write from an introspective standpoint and I appreciate how you use new information to enlighten your (and our) views on watches.
Max was doing a podcast called "The Tribe" I think until sometime last year. It was excellent. Last one I remember was with an American scientist who had many intelligent theories Tell Max to do some more. Haven't seen an MB&F in the flesh yet. I'll be happy to wear one around to represent - text me for more details!
It's a lot farther than 4 hours. Interestingly, the website shows they have "stores" in Las Vegas, NV, California, and Florida. I would think a location in New York City would be good, but maybe not?
IG or here on substack? Although I’m not sure SDC has ever (or will ever) randomly publish details of new releases just for the sake of reporting. It’s more likely to be on SDC as a hot topic in the industry (which the SP one was)
Nice article, analysis, and great response from MB&F too. I really wish there was more civilised and open dialogue in this manner. Even if you have to poke the bear to initiate it sometime. 😉
I love this sort of response. I’ve long admired how MB&F interacts with the public - and this just further raises my opinion of them. And I don’t even own any MB&F timepieces.
I can see how it makes sense as an entry point to the brand. But maybe it also offers MB&F tribe members something a little less conspicuous. Yes, they could just wear a “normal” watch in those occasions - but they love MB&F. Worth offering such an option.
Let me begin by disclosing my personal experiences with MB&F, which may naturally introduce some bias into my views.
I first met Max Busser by chance at GWD 2024. A friend brought my wife and me into the MB&F suite without an appointment, and we found ourselves speaking with MB&F team member Augustin Chivot on the balcony. Max joined us shortly afterward and generously spent several uninterrupted minutes sharing his broader philosophy on watchmaking, never once promoting his catalog or making a sales pitch. My wife, my friend, and I were all deeply impressed. Max came across as a thoughtful and principled gentleman, a rare quality that any industry would benefit from, not just horology.
Our second encounter with MB&F came during a dinner event in the U.S., where several models were presented, including the then-under-embargo SP1. My wife, taken with the design, placed an order shortly thereafter.
Our third experience was visiting the M.A.D. House in Geneva the day before Watches & Wonders, where we received some MB&F swag—hoodies, if memory serves.
I share these anecdotes not to promote the brand, but to be transparent. If this history makes me biased, I accept that. It’s simply the context in which I read and interpret commentary about MB&F.
•On Being Wrong (and Why It’s Good)
“My open and frank conversation with MB&F would never have happened if I’d written another puff piece about their ‘innovative skeleton design’ or some other nonsense. You need to poke the bear to wake it up 😂”
I may be mistaken, but I’ve had the impression, perhaps from previous posts or the occasional quip, that MB&F isn’t among your favored brands. I recall some past remarks that seemed skeptical of the HM line’s horological value, though the limitations of Substack’s search function makes it impossible for me to retrieve those references.
That perception also colored my reaction to a recent Instagram story you posted, suggesting that Max Busser had sold his stake in MB&F to Chanel. Even if seen by only a few thousand followers, such unverified information can unintentionally cast a shadow over an independent brand’s reputation. In today’s media climate, where viral impressions can quickly shape public perception, a casual rumor, however fleeting, can have unintended consequences.
If a similar rumor were circulated about principals who have you admire you have also taken Chanel investments,F.P. Journe or Romain Gauthier, would it feel fair or responsible to share it without verification? I ask this not rhetorically, but genuinely, as someone who values your usual standards of critical inquiry and commentary.
I understand the value of provocation in sparking dialogue. But “poking the bear,” as you say, might best be done with robust critique rather than speculation and flippant rhetoric. Thoughtful dissent is vital in any field, but I believe it’s most productive when grounded in respect and substantiated claims. We have enough Nicos in this world, and not enough King Flums.
•Transparency Wins
One question that arose for me: Would it have been possible to speak directly with MB&F personnel before publishing your newsletter titled “MB&F’s Identity Crisis”? That piece opened with:
“I think we are living through the most intellectually barren period in modern history.”
And soon followed with:
“This decline in critical thinking has infected every corner of society, and of course the watch industry is no exception.”
Readers are then told that this context, marked by “tribal warfare and marketing-BS” sets the stage for analyzing MB&F’s latest release.
It struck me as quite a heavy framing for a discussion of the SP1, and while I respect the desire to push beyond puff pieces, the tone came across more like a rebuke than a review. You’ve been a scholar follower of Daniel Kahneman and others in his field to understand the power of framing.
I’m writing this not to defend MB&F unconditionally, but to encourage a more nuanced approach especially given the influence you’ve built as a commentator on independent watchmaking. It could be that this comment and the frenetic DMs I sent you on this topic come from a belief that your influence and real is much higher than it actually is If so it is because your thoughtful writing and keen insights have at innumerable times driven me to (a) think deeply, and (b) changed my thinking on one or more topics. I have no doubt your future writings will do the same. Thus endeth sermon.
We see the world as we are, not as it is… I say this often and this is no different. I’m glad you spelled out the origins of any bias which might lead to this view of the world. The instagram story you mentioned was already a circulating rumour. I didn’t make it up. About 1 hour after posting it, MB&F reached out to clarify it was false and I posted something along the lines of: “this is false, and verified by MB&F” - why would you ignore that part in your account? I can only assume it is because you missed the second story … but the point is that I didn’t start the rumour, and my actions were able to clarify that it was false. To me that’s a net positive. Without my actions it would have remained a rumour and you’ve already outlined why that’s a bad thing. And yes, I’d do the same for Journe and RG. You frame it as negative, I see it as positive.
On the discourse and private vs public issues… the same thing applies. Collectors talk a lot of nonsense in private chats. Everything I came up with initially is underpinned by what the brand made public. That is a collector’s opinion. Not a journalist’s. It is devoid of inside information. From that perspective, the brand learns from the experience and perhaps uses that to inform how they do future launches and what additional information might be useful to share with collectors. It’s a way to find all the leaks in the “new product release” bucket and plug them for the next one. That’s one of many upsides. There’s gotta be a reason why someone from MB&F reposted this very story, and I doubt that reason is because they hated it.
So, Doc, I appreciate you sharing your perspective and have duly noted what aspects were inflammatory from your standpoint … I’ll leave it at that.
Beautifully done my friend. An honest initial assessment and quick and proper follow up following. This is sorely missed in most reporting. You were not too harsh before. You always call balls and strikes as you see them.
Many years ago, I attended a weekend long business seminar by Tom Peters who wrote a book called In Search of Excellence which examined the lessons and business practices of the best run corporations.
One tenet which ran through most of them was the willingness to take risks, or as he put it “throw things up against the wall and see what sticks!”
I sincerely appreciate that about your writings…🫡🙇🏼☝🏻
Man, this felt so good. Kudos to you and MB&F for actually capturing watch marketing/reviewing as an intellectual discourse.
Instead of doubling down on being criticized, both parties did a little better for the community. That’s what it’s all about, right?
Apparently it works 😂
this exchange feels like the antithesis of the intellectual wasteland referenced in the first post. refreshingly reasoned discourse.
It really does! 🥲😅
Damn it, I like MB&F more now 😅
I’m glad you did this update and shared the transparency. Well done to you for initiating and to MB&F for reaching out.
A lot of people feel like some independent brands focus on increasing production because of pressure (we had a DB debate before) but I feel good that some are still sticking to their values and strategies.
PS. MB&F is Max B & Fehr 😂
Okay, i just read this and my comment on the previous piece was spot on.. this is just broadening MB&F.
No matter what @Max, this single exchange is a better press release on the SP1 than the sum total of all the repetitive crap I’ve read in the traditional media.. take this approach next time.
You’re happy to admit when you’re wrong??😮
I thought the watch was beautiful when I first saw the photos, and I don’t normally like most skeleton watches.
Not sure if that was an insult lol
Hehe I was being silly! You always write from an introspective standpoint and I appreciate how you use new information to enlighten your (and our) views on watches.
Max was doing a podcast called "The Tribe" I think until sometime last year. It was excellent. Last one I remember was with an American scientist who had many intelligent theories Tell Max to do some more. Haven't seen an MB&F in the flesh yet. I'll be happy to wear one around to represent - text me for more details!
Let me guess… the nearest outlet is 4+ hours away? 😂
It's a lot farther than 4 hours. Interestingly, the website shows they have "stores" in Las Vegas, NV, California, and Florida. I would think a location in New York City would be good, but maybe not?
Turning a foe into a friend is what MF & F is all about I guess
Friend is a stretch… and foe, actually.
Foe sure 😎👑
Maybe better as Max Busser AF
how can a new watch brand contact you for publishing details of their watch ?
IG or here on substack? Although I’m not sure SDC has ever (or will ever) randomly publish details of new releases just for the sake of reporting. It’s more likely to be on SDC as a hot topic in the industry (which the SP one was)
Bravo, on all sides…well, maybe not the fanatics.
Both a considered and respectful exchange and a testament to SDC's credibility.
Nice article, analysis, and great response from MB&F too. I really wish there was more civilised and open dialogue in this manner. Even if you have to poke the bear to initiate it sometime. 😉
I love this sort of response. I’ve long admired how MB&F interacts with the public - and this just further raises my opinion of them. And I don’t even own any MB&F timepieces.
I can see how it makes sense as an entry point to the brand. But maybe it also offers MB&F tribe members something a little less conspicuous. Yes, they could just wear a “normal” watch in those occasions - but they love MB&F. Worth offering such an option.
Have already had a couple of people tell me this whole story made them want an MB&F (or want one even more). Silver linings lol
Let me begin by disclosing my personal experiences with MB&F, which may naturally introduce some bias into my views.
I first met Max Busser by chance at GWD 2024. A friend brought my wife and me into the MB&F suite without an appointment, and we found ourselves speaking with MB&F team member Augustin Chivot on the balcony. Max joined us shortly afterward and generously spent several uninterrupted minutes sharing his broader philosophy on watchmaking, never once promoting his catalog or making a sales pitch. My wife, my friend, and I were all deeply impressed. Max came across as a thoughtful and principled gentleman, a rare quality that any industry would benefit from, not just horology.
Our second encounter with MB&F came during a dinner event in the U.S., where several models were presented, including the then-under-embargo SP1. My wife, taken with the design, placed an order shortly thereafter.
Our third experience was visiting the M.A.D. House in Geneva the day before Watches & Wonders, where we received some MB&F swag—hoodies, if memory serves.
I share these anecdotes not to promote the brand, but to be transparent. If this history makes me biased, I accept that. It’s simply the context in which I read and interpret commentary about MB&F.
•On Being Wrong (and Why It’s Good)
“My open and frank conversation with MB&F would never have happened if I’d written another puff piece about their ‘innovative skeleton design’ or some other nonsense. You need to poke the bear to wake it up 😂”
I may be mistaken, but I’ve had the impression, perhaps from previous posts or the occasional quip, that MB&F isn’t among your favored brands. I recall some past remarks that seemed skeptical of the HM line’s horological value, though the limitations of Substack’s search function makes it impossible for me to retrieve those references.
That perception also colored my reaction to a recent Instagram story you posted, suggesting that Max Busser had sold his stake in MB&F to Chanel. Even if seen by only a few thousand followers, such unverified information can unintentionally cast a shadow over an independent brand’s reputation. In today’s media climate, where viral impressions can quickly shape public perception, a casual rumor, however fleeting, can have unintended consequences.
If a similar rumor were circulated about principals who have you admire you have also taken Chanel investments,F.P. Journe or Romain Gauthier, would it feel fair or responsible to share it without verification? I ask this not rhetorically, but genuinely, as someone who values your usual standards of critical inquiry and commentary.
I understand the value of provocation in sparking dialogue. But “poking the bear,” as you say, might best be done with robust critique rather than speculation and flippant rhetoric. Thoughtful dissent is vital in any field, but I believe it’s most productive when grounded in respect and substantiated claims. We have enough Nicos in this world, and not enough King Flums.
•Transparency Wins
One question that arose for me: Would it have been possible to speak directly with MB&F personnel before publishing your newsletter titled “MB&F’s Identity Crisis”? That piece opened with:
“I think we are living through the most intellectually barren period in modern history.”
And soon followed with:
“This decline in critical thinking has infected every corner of society, and of course the watch industry is no exception.”
Readers are then told that this context, marked by “tribal warfare and marketing-BS” sets the stage for analyzing MB&F’s latest release.
It struck me as quite a heavy framing for a discussion of the SP1, and while I respect the desire to push beyond puff pieces, the tone came across more like a rebuke than a review. You’ve been a scholar follower of Daniel Kahneman and others in his field to understand the power of framing.
I’m writing this not to defend MB&F unconditionally, but to encourage a more nuanced approach especially given the influence you’ve built as a commentator on independent watchmaking. It could be that this comment and the frenetic DMs I sent you on this topic come from a belief that your influence and real is much higher than it actually is If so it is because your thoughtful writing and keen insights have at innumerable times driven me to (a) think deeply, and (b) changed my thinking on one or more topics. I have no doubt your future writings will do the same. Thus endeth sermon.
We see the world as we are, not as it is… I say this often and this is no different. I’m glad you spelled out the origins of any bias which might lead to this view of the world. The instagram story you mentioned was already a circulating rumour. I didn’t make it up. About 1 hour after posting it, MB&F reached out to clarify it was false and I posted something along the lines of: “this is false, and verified by MB&F” - why would you ignore that part in your account? I can only assume it is because you missed the second story … but the point is that I didn’t start the rumour, and my actions were able to clarify that it was false. To me that’s a net positive. Without my actions it would have remained a rumour and you’ve already outlined why that’s a bad thing. And yes, I’d do the same for Journe and RG. You frame it as negative, I see it as positive.
On the discourse and private vs public issues… the same thing applies. Collectors talk a lot of nonsense in private chats. Everything I came up with initially is underpinned by what the brand made public. That is a collector’s opinion. Not a journalist’s. It is devoid of inside information. From that perspective, the brand learns from the experience and perhaps uses that to inform how they do future launches and what additional information might be useful to share with collectors. It’s a way to find all the leaks in the “new product release” bucket and plug them for the next one. That’s one of many upsides. There’s gotta be a reason why someone from MB&F reposted this very story, and I doubt that reason is because they hated it.
So, Doc, I appreciate you sharing your perspective and have duly noted what aspects were inflammatory from your standpoint … I’ll leave it at that.
Loved this ping-pong! Both response were so quick
Beautifully done my friend. An honest initial assessment and quick and proper follow up following. This is sorely missed in most reporting. You were not too harsh before. You always call balls and strikes as you see them.
Many years ago, I attended a weekend long business seminar by Tom Peters who wrote a book called In Search of Excellence which examined the lessons and business practices of the best run corporations.
One tenet which ran through most of them was the willingness to take risks, or as he put it “throw things up against the wall and see what sticks!”
I sincerely appreciate that about your writings…🫡🙇🏼☝🏻