I would add to your conclusion the observation that if a watchmaker’s personal behavior is a material consideration, there are far worse offenders out there who make even more desirable watches, and relative angels who make less desirable watches.
Notwithstanding a possible correlation between those traits (and my whataboutism), collectors should probably deliberate on how much the art/artist dichotomy matters to them, and whether or not they wish to be consistent in the application of their answer across multiple acquisitions (saying for example that Sylvain is a dick but I will overlook that because I love his watch, Journe is a dick and I can’t look past that because I wasn’t sure I liked his watch anyway)
Let’s not pretend for a second like Ken is a saint. I worked for the guy and he’s as toxic and entitled as they come. Forcing the team to go along with his endless attempts to infringe on copyrights and intellectual properties of others just to line his pockets in the name of the “community”. Despite ignoring the team’s feedback, when he gets sued he’s somehow surprised and cries foul acting like he’s the victim. Forced us to continue taking orders for the Cartier santos straps that he agreed to stop selling after being rightfully served a cease and desist. Made us delete negative comments on social and even blocking some clients so they could no longer share their feedback and experiences.
I’m glad I don’t have to deal with his shit anymore and yeah I would have told him to get the fuck out of my house as well.
Counterpoint: a perspective from my days in automotive tech, I've run prototype vehicle demos of very high value to OEMs. Serious money and serious pressure. I've dealt with entitled execs who treated these multi-million-pound prototypes like toys. I've seen "leaders" ignore safety briefings, mishandle equipment, and push boundaries just because they could. Once, things got so bad that one of my colleagues had to physically remove an exec from a test car like a doorman at a nightclub. Yes, it got that bad.
So when I hear about Sylvain upset over someone reaching for a prototype without permission, I get it. Should he have handled it better? Probably, but let's not pretend this is some unforgivable sin. Let's also hold visitors and potential customers accountable. Respect the creator, respect the creation. If you can't follow basic etiquette when viewing a piece of horological tech and art, maybe stick to window shopping at the mall.
The watch community is small, and we need to do better. All of us. That means:
Visitors showing some damn respect for the art and the artist.
Everyone remembering that behind every watch is a person who's poured their life into it.
The next time you're lucky enough to view a prototype, remember: you're not entitled to anything. Show some respect, follow the rules, and maybe - just maybe - you'll get to be part of something special. This industry thrives on passion, but that doesn't give anyone a free pass to be an ankle - on either side of the table.
Thank goodness there was no instagram and instantaneous communication 50 years ago. I’m sure Hans, Abraham-Louis and many others got upset and acted impulsively and didn’t have it broadcast universally in moments.
Whether he was wrong or right everyone has their moments. I'll say one thing though its a special watch that (reading from various accounts) he has poured his soul into .
in these situations, i err on the side of whomever is against "high end" watch collectors because there's nobody more entitled, nobody more out of touch with reality, not even 3 year old toddlers act more like spoiled brats than those individuals. if they all disappeared instantly tomorrow, it would be a net win for humanity.
so yeah, totally on the side of Sylvain on this one. could he have handled better the situation? yeah. is he at fault here, not in the slightest.
Masterful job in presenting a vary balanced view and take of the events. It’s definitely been lively over the last 24 hours.
Also a great reminder to many of us that we have to be aware of how we present ourselves to others when we are burning the candle from both ends and running on fumes. The impact of a rash decision or quick escalation of words can do a lot of damage quickly. It’s always good to have people who can help you see when you’re nearing that point so you can course correct before hand.
When I was much younger I was exposed to and appreciative of Richard Wagner’s music. It was only at a later age when I learned of his unsavory racism and posthumous appropriation by World War II era German nationalism.
My ear can still appreciate Wagner, but my mind clouds the appreciation.
On a somewhat related note, at GWD there was a symposium titled something to the effect of “Second hand watch dealers as influencers.”
One of the panelists offered the often heard saying “It takes years or decades to build a reputation but only a moment to damage it
I can understand we all have bad days. This was a particularly bad move by doubling down on IG and then trying to whitewash the whole thing by deleting comments that aren’t positive. Great way to lose trust.
It’s a delicate balance of being an artist and running a business.
It’s clear Sylvain is too close to it and is doing too much himself in addition to not collaborating effectively with Rafa (they’re contradicting each other).
I think Ken and Johnathan were beyond gracious in being apologetic etc. I can’t think many people would have taken being spoken to like that so graciously, others in their shoes i’m sure would have done a Nico dont you know who i am approach.
Ultimately you can pour your heart into the design and the watchmaking but if you do a major eff up like this it can undo it all.
Let’s be honest the world of people who would spend 50k on a Berneron is small. It’s pointless taking nice photos for Instagram with Mike tiktok Nouveau if the small circle of potential buyers are unimpressed with how you treat potential customers.
On occasion, I deal with musicians as part of my work. Most of the time they're sweetness and light. On rare occasion, I get shouted at (normally not for anything that's my actual fault, I hasten to add). It's part of the creative rollercoaster, and IMHO, personalities capable of creating real, brilliant art are not like the rest of us, and I am usually happy to take it in that context.
In this instance, I'd be prepared to give Berneron the benefit of the doubt, although I heard him on a recent podcast (I think Hodinkee with Tony Traina) saying he was gearing up to launch a new watch every year. As he said it, I did wonder if that might be overly ambitious. I'm not a watchmaker so what do I know, but it sounds like a lot of stress for a team at a major brand, let alone for a one(-ish) man company.
Is Sylvain actually manufacturing these movements and components himself? Presumably not. So why forgive him here for running an impossibly-tight business operation?
Who cares? It certainly seems like he’s bitten off more than he can chew but from a creative perspective, I’d prefer my artists to be ambitious and to be pushing boundaries. You don’t get good art by playing safe.
I brought it up bc you mention the amount of implied stress. My point is that, broadly speaking, he’s _not_ doing it all by himself. And to the extent that he is, that’s more a question of business management. Why not hire someone to take on the non-product work?
Yes fair point, and sorry I fumbled it. Hiring someone else sounds like a good solution, although people familiar with his story stress he’s mortgaged his soul away for this project so maybe until he sells a ton of watches and pays back loans, he can’t afford to hire anyone else. Which you might say makes him a bad businessman, but maybe that just makes him a good artist! 😂
My radar really started pinging with the phrase "After this story got out" - for me the really interesting story is behind this phrase. This makes it sound like an accident, whoops I fell and a bunch of private texts went public.
If I had to weigh a creator getting cross over mishandling a prototype and passing on private corro I dont think my number one concern would be the former.
I’m noticing justification for Sylvain’s behavior here, which feels confusing.
I can understand how sleeping 10 hours in 3 days can challenge anyone, but that’s not an excuse. Ultimately, Sylvain is participating in GWD as a sales exercise. If he’s not sleeping, or otherwise strained or irritable, we can both empathize with his situation AND agree that he’s struggling to manage his sales pipeline and customer relationships (to say nothing of his work pace or well-being.)
People will excuse him, people will vilify him, whatever. But it’s evidence of _something_, and when someone tells you who they are you should listen to them.
I would add to your conclusion the observation that if a watchmaker’s personal behavior is a material consideration, there are far worse offenders out there who make even more desirable watches, and relative angels who make less desirable watches.
Notwithstanding a possible correlation between those traits (and my whataboutism), collectors should probably deliberate on how much the art/artist dichotomy matters to them, and whether or not they wish to be consistent in the application of their answer across multiple acquisitions (saying for example that Sylvain is a dick but I will overlook that because I love his watch, Journe is a dick and I can’t look past that because I wasn’t sure I liked his watch anyway)
Let’s not pretend for a second like Ken is a saint. I worked for the guy and he’s as toxic and entitled as they come. Forcing the team to go along with his endless attempts to infringe on copyrights and intellectual properties of others just to line his pockets in the name of the “community”. Despite ignoring the team’s feedback, when he gets sued he’s somehow surprised and cries foul acting like he’s the victim. Forced us to continue taking orders for the Cartier santos straps that he agreed to stop selling after being rightfully served a cease and desist. Made us delete negative comments on social and even blocking some clients so they could no longer share their feedback and experiences.
I’m glad I don’t have to deal with his shit anymore and yeah I would have told him to get the fuck out of my house as well.
Never knew he was such an entitled prick. Looks like the people after Berneron are all Ken’s followers.
Counterpoint: a perspective from my days in automotive tech, I've run prototype vehicle demos of very high value to OEMs. Serious money and serious pressure. I've dealt with entitled execs who treated these multi-million-pound prototypes like toys. I've seen "leaders" ignore safety briefings, mishandle equipment, and push boundaries just because they could. Once, things got so bad that one of my colleagues had to physically remove an exec from a test car like a doorman at a nightclub. Yes, it got that bad.
So when I hear about Sylvain upset over someone reaching for a prototype without permission, I get it. Should he have handled it better? Probably, but let's not pretend this is some unforgivable sin. Let's also hold visitors and potential customers accountable. Respect the creator, respect the creation. If you can't follow basic etiquette when viewing a piece of horological tech and art, maybe stick to window shopping at the mall.
The watch community is small, and we need to do better. All of us. That means:
Visitors showing some damn respect for the art and the artist.
Everyone remembering that behind every watch is a person who's poured their life into it.
The next time you're lucky enough to view a prototype, remember: you're not entitled to anything. Show some respect, follow the rules, and maybe - just maybe - you'll get to be part of something special. This industry thrives on passion, but that doesn't give anyone a free pass to be an ankle - on either side of the table.
You must be a genius to create the piece, & a saint to deal with the press. A challenge to be both I guess
Thank goodness there was no instagram and instantaneous communication 50 years ago. I’m sure Hans, Abraham-Louis and many others got upset and acted impulsively and didn’t have it broadcast universally in moments.
Whether he was wrong or right everyone has their moments. I'll say one thing though its a special watch that (reading from various accounts) he has poured his soul into .
in these situations, i err on the side of whomever is against "high end" watch collectors because there's nobody more entitled, nobody more out of touch with reality, not even 3 year old toddlers act more like spoiled brats than those individuals. if they all disappeared instantly tomorrow, it would be a net win for humanity.
so yeah, totally on the side of Sylvain on this one. could he have handled better the situation? yeah. is he at fault here, not in the slightest.
Masterful job in presenting a vary balanced view and take of the events. It’s definitely been lively over the last 24 hours.
Also a great reminder to many of us that we have to be aware of how we present ourselves to others when we are burning the candle from both ends and running on fumes. The impact of a rash decision or quick escalation of words can do a lot of damage quickly. It’s always good to have people who can help you see when you’re nearing that point so you can course correct before hand.
Fair warning: Godwin’s Law in effect.
When I was much younger I was exposed to and appreciative of Richard Wagner’s music. It was only at a later age when I learned of his unsavory racism and posthumous appropriation by World War II era German nationalism.
My ear can still appreciate Wagner, but my mind clouds the appreciation.
On a somewhat related note, at GWD there was a symposium titled something to the effect of “Second hand watch dealers as influencers.”
One of the panelists offered the often heard saying “It takes years or decades to build a reputation but only a moment to damage it
I can understand we all have bad days. This was a particularly bad move by doubling down on IG and then trying to whitewash the whole thing by deleting comments that aren’t positive. Great way to lose trust.
It’s a delicate balance of being an artist and running a business.
It’s clear Sylvain is too close to it and is doing too much himself in addition to not collaborating effectively with Rafa (they’re contradicting each other).
I think Ken and Johnathan were beyond gracious in being apologetic etc. I can’t think many people would have taken being spoken to like that so graciously, others in their shoes i’m sure would have done a Nico dont you know who i am approach.
Ultimately you can pour your heart into the design and the watchmaking but if you do a major eff up like this it can undo it all.
Let’s be honest the world of people who would spend 50k on a Berneron is small. It’s pointless taking nice photos for Instagram with Mike tiktok Nouveau if the small circle of potential buyers are unimpressed with how you treat potential customers.
On occasion, I deal with musicians as part of my work. Most of the time they're sweetness and light. On rare occasion, I get shouted at (normally not for anything that's my actual fault, I hasten to add). It's part of the creative rollercoaster, and IMHO, personalities capable of creating real, brilliant art are not like the rest of us, and I am usually happy to take it in that context.
In this instance, I'd be prepared to give Berneron the benefit of the doubt, although I heard him on a recent podcast (I think Hodinkee with Tony Traina) saying he was gearing up to launch a new watch every year. As he said it, I did wonder if that might be overly ambitious. I'm not a watchmaker so what do I know, but it sounds like a lot of stress for a team at a major brand, let alone for a one(-ish) man company.
Perhaps it is.
> let alone for a one(-ish) man company.
Is Sylvain actually manufacturing these movements and components himself? Presumably not. So why forgive him here for running an impossibly-tight business operation?
Who cares? It certainly seems like he’s bitten off more than he can chew but from a creative perspective, I’d prefer my artists to be ambitious and to be pushing boundaries. You don’t get good art by playing safe.
I brought it up bc you mention the amount of implied stress. My point is that, broadly speaking, he’s _not_ doing it all by himself. And to the extent that he is, that’s more a question of business management. Why not hire someone to take on the non-product work?
Yes fair point, and sorry I fumbled it. Hiring someone else sounds like a good solution, although people familiar with his story stress he’s mortgaged his soul away for this project so maybe until he sells a ton of watches and pays back loans, he can’t afford to hire anyone else. Which you might say makes him a bad businessman, but maybe that just makes him a good artist! 😂
Hey maybe!! I’ve worked very early at companies but never founded one, so I can’t say for sure.
Well worded and opined, and fairly unbiased presentation of the events.
A mountainous write up indeed.
My radar really started pinging with the phrase "After this story got out" - for me the really interesting story is behind this phrase. This makes it sound like an accident, whoops I fell and a bunch of private texts went public.
If I had to weigh a creator getting cross over mishandling a prototype and passing on private corro I dont think my number one concern would be the former.
Fantastic summary 👊🏽
I’m noticing justification for Sylvain’s behavior here, which feels confusing.
I can understand how sleeping 10 hours in 3 days can challenge anyone, but that’s not an excuse. Ultimately, Sylvain is participating in GWD as a sales exercise. If he’s not sleeping, or otherwise strained or irritable, we can both empathize with his situation AND agree that he’s struggling to manage his sales pipeline and customer relationships (to say nothing of his work pace or well-being.)
People will excuse him, people will vilify him, whatever. But it’s evidence of _something_, and when someone tells you who they are you should listen to them.