A Watch Critic's Perspective: From Atelier Wen to industry giants, discover how marketing hype and industrial shortcuts are eroding a cherished watchmaking art.
You really ought to find a technical adviser. Anyone who has any amount of experience with this kind of work can tell you that not a single one of Atelier Wen's claims about the challenges involved in manufacturing the dials are correct.
In general this article is a good summing-up but I want to point out a few things.
The claim that the guilloche machines lose calibration if left unattended for more than 15 minutes is ridiculous. A rose engine is just a lathe which operates on a slightly different principle. It is a machine tool which has deterministic results for given inputs regardless of how long it has been left unattended. The only danger in leaving work unfinished on the machine is that the operator may forget what step they are in the phasing and indexing necessary for generating the pattern. Atelier Wen's claim may be some severe and negligent corruption of this potential issue.
A note on precision in guilloche - The precision necessary in a guilloche pattern is related to the fineness and intricacy of the pattern, and the depth of the guilloche cut. An extremely fine basket weave pattern as in Roger Smith's dials will have a depth of cut of 0.042mm. The depth of cut varies depending on the pattern and the angle of the cutter, in Roger's case a 3 bar basket with a 1.2mm pitch pattern bar, and 160 degrees of included angle on the cutter. Let's presume 10 percent of cut depth is allowable without being noticeable, then 0.004 micron is the tolerable error. Already that is greater than Atelier Wen's claim of 2 micron required accuracy. Looking at, for example, the Perception V2 Piao dial, my estimation on the depth of cut is about .126. This is on the basis of a 22bump rosette and correlating the case diameter to the spacing of the cuts, and taking a conservative guess as to the cutter angle which I estimate at 140 degrees included. 10 percent of this figure is 0.012, 6 times the stated required accuracy.
Of course there are many other types of precision in lathes. Even in very precise manual turning lathes like those used for turning watch parts, like the schaublin 70, 2 microns of runout or centering is considered very good. For a rose engine such figures are unimageable and beyond that far beyond what is necessary.
As for the claims of effort or time requirements - you can take as long as you want to do a guilloche dial. If it is taking his shop 8 hours of continuous engine turning to produce these simple patterns, that is not a reflection of complexity or challenge. It is a matter of pace of work. A positive spin might be to call it deliberate, more realistically it's just slow. Or, someone somewhere is lying, or misunderstanding and re-interpreting something benign for marketing spin.
In general if someone refuses to be transparent about these things then there is something being hidden. If it was actually this difficult they would show the process in full.
Thanks very much for your comments and explanations. An important consideration is that both the Atelier Wen Rose Engine and Scriber setup they use for the new Revolution dial are entirely self-built creations which may have some flaws or lacking mechanisms to lock in and position for example. You can see they rely on some wheels for quick adjustment. If this can't be locked, it could shift due to vibrations, gravity, or loose fit in the mechanism. Other causes include tension relaxation in the dial causing small changes which can be notnoticeable, thermal expansion, or external bumpsfrIt's common that guilloch patterns are created in one go per section or part is my understanding to avoid any variance like this. It might just be the Wen setup requires frequent readjustment and alignment, which also explains some of the time consuming elements of their approach.
Regarding precision, Atelier Wen shared a video where they appear to use a Micrometer to adjust and monitor the cutting tool depth on the scribe to within 2 micron, I don't believe the 2 micron claim probably was for their Rose Engine, but they are using similar micrometers to at least ensure the depth cut setting to a high degree and since they don't use manual pressure it's more likely to be attainable also considering the diamond tip cutters they use and multiple shallow cuts to achieve the depth rather than attempting to do deeper cuts in one go.
Completely agree with your points on time required being un-transparent (from other brands too, a problem is also that setup time and other dial elements or finishes or QC are often included too.
It however doesn't seem to align with the speed we see in videos from AW they made. But the adjustment steps in between cuts or how many cuts are made is not made clear and could go some way to explaining the time required but still is unlikely to account for the times claimed which differ so much from other similar dials.
The quality of the cut also oddly suggests a potential fast/deeper cuts as the diamond tips should normally provide better quality finish, normally comparable to Carbide tips is my understanding if used properly and they are of high quality. But imperfections in the diamond or general quality or improper use of them could also explains these marks I suppose..
Superbly put together piece, I salute you. Especially as I was critical and defensive against your critique when we discussed this at the time of the Revo launch. My apologies for that.
I had RGM mentioned in an earlier draft! Might have gotten lost in the edit somewhere, so good shout yes. There are more guilloché artisans out there I am sure I forgot too.
Thanks for the detailed article, but I don't see any significant difference in this video and the video Atelier Wen offered. RGM man also uses some tool to fixate the blade tip at the right distance and position, the tool itself is way older. But dialing the lever is pretty much what the technique is all about. Hand Made Guilloche here was engineering which does not imply the same level of touch the painting in 18-19 century represents.
Thanks! Not sure what you are referring to exactly, but RGM uses traditional vintage guilloche machines (some over 100years, see this video for a nice overview:https://youtu.be/9VKASuwatG0?si=UAk6r41agOI4fvvA) operated by hand and crucially the cutting pressure is applied manually which AW isn't doing at all, which is one of the crucial parts that requires years of practice to perfect. And base material is softer (easier) and cheaper too (copper vs silver or gold).
Setting the dials/pattern is simply a "recipe" which is carefully followed, the real skill is in the cutting and control of the rotation and positioning of the cutter. The cutter control is like a paintbrush stroke, leaving that to a fixed machine setting is the equivalent of a painting by robots or colour by numbers imho.
Firstly, Regarding the vintage machines over 100 years old: While I understand the appreciation for craftsmanship, isn’t it a bit of a misplaced fantasy to focus so much on the history and vintage nature of the machinery? Especially when the conversation should really center on human craftsmanship. Back in the day, these mechanical methods (that didn’t rely on electricity or computers) actually pushed traditional artisans out of the market.
Secondly, I’d like to share my thoughts on your points about "operated by hand and crucially the cutting pressure is applied manually" and "cutter control is like a paintbrush stroke." Both in the Atelier Wen and RGM videos, there are clearly captured moments where the blade is lifted off the dial, or the rotation stops. Neither brand "leaves that to a fixed machine setting." These interruptions happen when there are decorative elements on the dial (e.g., small seconds, logos, etc.), and aside from these exceptions, there’s no reason to lift the blade unnecessarily.
You describe this as a "hand stroke," but perhaps it might help to consider a broader perspective. It feels like the differences you've highlighted are accurate but overly magnified. In both cases, the essential task—fixing the blade in place and moving the dial according to the pattern—is performed using a machine. This is machining work.
Atelier Wen adjusts the distance between the blade and the dial using a small handle lever on the right side of the machine, monitored visually on a screen, utilizing thread locking for precision. On the other hand, RGM pushes the blade carriage straight forward and views it closely through a loupe. What you’re referring to as the "hand stroke" seems to be more about the method of distance adjustment—one uses thread locking, and the other relies on the stability of a towel-padded surface. But neither is consistently applying hand pressure to carve.
If we were talking about a true "hand stroke," it would involve directly holding the blade and carving by hand. At this level, both are already compromising by relying on machine assistance. I don’t see why this should be regarded as a fundamental difference. After all, we’re not talking about a level of precision akin to East Asian Buddhist art or something similarly intricate.
Finally, regarding the 10 years of experience: it seems like you’re placing a lot of weight on this. But ultimately, this is a skill of the hands. For some, it might take 10 years; for others, 3 years. Cultural differences also play a role in how manual skills are mastered.
Less relevant impression. I don't own Atelier Wen watches, but seeing their video where they visit Swiss museums and have conversations with professionals there—with no significant objections being raised—makes me wonder if the difference you’re emphasizing is really as significant as you think.
That said, there’s likely still a difference in technical skill involved, which is why there’s a price disparity. RGM’s pieces go for over $10,000, as I’ve seen. I don’t know much, but it seems unlikely that just a Guilloche dial alone could justify such a price.
Thank you again for the reply and the discussion, it seems some points still need some clarification. So let me address your points directly:
1. The vintage machines are marvels of craftsmanship themselves, created by highly skilled artisans of the time. Their construction represents a level of engineering and precision that is difficult to replicate today as much of the knowhow is lost and the cost to create them to the same standard is prohibitive today as well. They were works of art beautifully shaped and finished in their own right. These machines didn’t replace traditional engraving but introduced a new decorative art form that still required immense skill to operate, complementing rather than displacing earlier methods.
2. Regarding "hand stroke," you are conflating the act of positioning the blade with the cutting process. In traditional guilloché, the cutting depth and pressure are actively controlled by the operator through their thumb on a spring-loaded cutting slide, which allows for fine adjustments in real time based on the material (there may be inconsistencies in material or flatness or adjustments needed as the cut progresses). This ensures uniformity, prevents issues like chatter, and allows smooth coordination with the rotation of the workpiece and fine adjustment and control of the final look of the cut.
3. The "interruptions" you referenced in Atelier Wen and RGM videos (e.g., lifting the blade for logos or sub-dials) are part of the manual operation, requiring the artisan to carefully navigate these areas and resume the pattern seamlessly. This highlights the operator’s role in managing the process, not automation or fixed settings. Yes AW has some but RGM's dials have a lot more complexity overall and different steps to create and finish them in a traditional way.
4. The 10-year figure reflects the traditional notion of mastery, where consistent practice leads to refined skill and fluency. While operation and simpler patterns can be learned in a few years perhaps, more complex designs involving intersecting patterns (or developing your own patterns) and challenging materials require significantly more time and experience. Mastery will also make the process smoother/quicker and less error prone so there is a lower rejection rate while maintaining a high precision and quality. Uniformity and a clean cut is takes many years of hands-on practice to achieve. The AW dials feature simple patterns and use a simpler softer material and the results don't reflect the work of a master or a particularly high quality rose engine like the vintage ones.
5. Regarding cost difference, obviously hourly wages in China are far lower than that of a master guillocheur in the US. So even if the exact effort and time was spent there would be a massive cost discrepancy. The intricacies of the dials is also a huge differentiator and RGM uses much higher quality and finished movements. So I don't think you can even compare and the price difference is fully justified in my opinion.
I hope this clears up the points and addresses your concerns. Let me know if any further clarification is needed on the above points.
Thank you for your detailed response. I think we’re approaching this topic from different perspectives and levels of immersion, which makes sense given your deep passion as a watch collector and my more casual interest. I can see why these nuances matter so much to you, but for me, I prefer to keep things simple and closer to a universal design language.
To be honest, the complexity of RGM’s Guilloche designs feels a bit overbalanced to me. It reminds me of some of the high-end complications coming out of China—like $100,000 tourbillons—where the emphasis seems to be more on making a statement about "Our country can do" craftsmanship rather than creating something universally appealing. That’s just my personal take, as a muggle, though, and I can see why others might appreciate the artistry and skill involved.
As for the cost differences, I completely agree with your point about labor and manufacturing in the US being a significant factor in pricing. For me, that’s where I see the biggest distinction, rather than the dial work alone.
I appreciate the insights you’ve shared—they’ve given me a better understanding of the intricacies involved, even if I might still lean toward a simpler view.
This discussion has actually shifted my perspective a bit. My initial thought was, “If Rolex can get away with doing this, why not AW?” But I can see now that the conversation vibe here and your deeper aesthetic understanding of watchmaking creates a completely different set of expectations. Thanks a lot!
Also fyi i recently got served an ad on ig, a few weeks after this whole revolution wen debacle, where one of the founders of wen says his dials take 8 hours to make 🤪🤷♂️
Fantastic write up on one the of the areas of watch making that often doesn't get discussed enough. Just wanted to add if you want to see a library of different guilloche patterns, Sartory Billard has a section on his website called "The Art of Guilloche" which helped me learn a name to the many patterns that are out there
I don't own a watch with a genuine guilloche dial yet, so this article is really useful to me. I was always wondering if the dial of the Rolex 1908 platinum was done by true rose engine, now I knew the answer. Thanks for all the time and effort by the author to put these info and research together. Excellent work!
A well written and researched article. This was very informative and I expanded my knowledge even further on this wonderful art form. Big thank you to A Watch Critic for the time and energy on this article. I full heartedly agree there needs to be more transparency from manufacturers to distinguish between the work done by hand versus machine only or machined assisted and the omissions in their marketing of how their dials, movements, etc are finished.
The omissions only create speculations and too often the media like to fill in the blanks with exaggerations. Again, job well done.
Great article! Seems to me that the comparison between the lack of transparency and labelling in the watch industry is the same than in the food industry!
Indeed, in many industries some marketing or sales people have found ways to sell things like something authentic while shortcuts are found that take it further and further from the original meaning or perception and expectations of things. There are many comparable situations unfortunately, and ultimately they are often used as an excuse to overcharge and some cases dilutes the original craft or quality as consumers often struggle to appreciate the differences.
Very in depth well written and thoroughly researched piece! Thanks to the author for the diligence required and for the host for providing and supporting the project! Was a great read and I’ll be looking forward to seeing more!
This is a great article bringing light to an increasingly common deception. Perhaps there needs a be an official designation for hand guilloche to make it easier for consumers to identify different types of dials. In addition to the stamped and CNC dials mentioned above, the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda PF was widely reported to have a guilloche dial, but this referred to a dial produced by CNC. It’s a nice dial and I like modern production, but that shouldn’t be called the same thing as a traditional term that referred to a different process.
You really ought to find a technical adviser. Anyone who has any amount of experience with this kind of work can tell you that not a single one of Atelier Wen's claims about the challenges involved in manufacturing the dials are correct.
In general this article is a good summing-up but I want to point out a few things.
The claim that the guilloche machines lose calibration if left unattended for more than 15 minutes is ridiculous. A rose engine is just a lathe which operates on a slightly different principle. It is a machine tool which has deterministic results for given inputs regardless of how long it has been left unattended. The only danger in leaving work unfinished on the machine is that the operator may forget what step they are in the phasing and indexing necessary for generating the pattern. Atelier Wen's claim may be some severe and negligent corruption of this potential issue.
A note on precision in guilloche - The precision necessary in a guilloche pattern is related to the fineness and intricacy of the pattern, and the depth of the guilloche cut. An extremely fine basket weave pattern as in Roger Smith's dials will have a depth of cut of 0.042mm. The depth of cut varies depending on the pattern and the angle of the cutter, in Roger's case a 3 bar basket with a 1.2mm pitch pattern bar, and 160 degrees of included angle on the cutter. Let's presume 10 percent of cut depth is allowable without being noticeable, then 0.004 micron is the tolerable error. Already that is greater than Atelier Wen's claim of 2 micron required accuracy. Looking at, for example, the Perception V2 Piao dial, my estimation on the depth of cut is about .126. This is on the basis of a 22bump rosette and correlating the case diameter to the spacing of the cuts, and taking a conservative guess as to the cutter angle which I estimate at 140 degrees included. 10 percent of this figure is 0.012, 6 times the stated required accuracy.
Of course there are many other types of precision in lathes. Even in very precise manual turning lathes like those used for turning watch parts, like the schaublin 70, 2 microns of runout or centering is considered very good. For a rose engine such figures are unimageable and beyond that far beyond what is necessary.
As for the claims of effort or time requirements - you can take as long as you want to do a guilloche dial. If it is taking his shop 8 hours of continuous engine turning to produce these simple patterns, that is not a reflection of complexity or challenge. It is a matter of pace of work. A positive spin might be to call it deliberate, more realistically it's just slow. Or, someone somewhere is lying, or misunderstanding and re-interpreting something benign for marketing spin.
In general if someone refuses to be transparent about these things then there is something being hidden. If it was actually this difficult they would show the process in full.
Thanks very much for your comments and explanations. An important consideration is that both the Atelier Wen Rose Engine and Scriber setup they use for the new Revolution dial are entirely self-built creations which may have some flaws or lacking mechanisms to lock in and position for example. You can see they rely on some wheels for quick adjustment. If this can't be locked, it could shift due to vibrations, gravity, or loose fit in the mechanism. Other causes include tension relaxation in the dial causing small changes which can be notnoticeable, thermal expansion, or external bumpsfrIt's common that guilloch patterns are created in one go per section or part is my understanding to avoid any variance like this. It might just be the Wen setup requires frequent readjustment and alignment, which also explains some of the time consuming elements of their approach.
Regarding precision, Atelier Wen shared a video where they appear to use a Micrometer to adjust and monitor the cutting tool depth on the scribe to within 2 micron, I don't believe the 2 micron claim probably was for their Rose Engine, but they are using similar micrometers to at least ensure the depth cut setting to a high degree and since they don't use manual pressure it's more likely to be attainable also considering the diamond tip cutters they use and multiple shallow cuts to achieve the depth rather than attempting to do deeper cuts in one go.
Completely agree with your points on time required being un-transparent (from other brands too, a problem is also that setup time and other dial elements or finishes or QC are often included too.
It however doesn't seem to align with the speed we see in videos from AW they made. But the adjustment steps in between cuts or how many cuts are made is not made clear and could go some way to explaining the time required but still is unlikely to account for the times claimed which differ so much from other similar dials.
The quality of the cut also oddly suggests a potential fast/deeper cuts as the diamond tips should normally provide better quality finish, normally comparable to Carbide tips is my understanding if used properly and they are of high quality. But imperfections in the diamond or general quality or improper use of them could also explains these marks I suppose..
John Doe. 😂 love the name.
Thanks for sharing these rather detailed and valuable insights.
Superbly put together piece, I salute you. Especially as I was critical and defensive against your critique when we discussed this at the time of the Revo launch. My apologies for that.
Appreciate it Mark! 🙏
Another watch brand seemingly still doing it the right way is RGM: https://www.rgmwatches.com/guilloche
I had RGM mentioned in an earlier draft! Might have gotten lost in the edit somewhere, so good shout yes. There are more guilloché artisans out there I am sure I forgot too.
Thanks for the detailed article, but I don't see any significant difference in this video and the video Atelier Wen offered. RGM man also uses some tool to fixate the blade tip at the right distance and position, the tool itself is way older. But dialing the lever is pretty much what the technique is all about. Hand Made Guilloche here was engineering which does not imply the same level of touch the painting in 18-19 century represents.
Thanks! Not sure what you are referring to exactly, but RGM uses traditional vintage guilloche machines (some over 100years, see this video for a nice overview:https://youtu.be/9VKASuwatG0?si=UAk6r41agOI4fvvA) operated by hand and crucially the cutting pressure is applied manually which AW isn't doing at all, which is one of the crucial parts that requires years of practice to perfect. And base material is softer (easier) and cheaper too (copper vs silver or gold).
Setting the dials/pattern is simply a "recipe" which is carefully followed, the real skill is in the cutting and control of the rotation and positioning of the cutter. The cutter control is like a paintbrush stroke, leaving that to a fixed machine setting is the equivalent of a painting by robots or colour by numbers imho.
Firstly, Regarding the vintage machines over 100 years old: While I understand the appreciation for craftsmanship, isn’t it a bit of a misplaced fantasy to focus so much on the history and vintage nature of the machinery? Especially when the conversation should really center on human craftsmanship. Back in the day, these mechanical methods (that didn’t rely on electricity or computers) actually pushed traditional artisans out of the market.
Secondly, I’d like to share my thoughts on your points about "operated by hand and crucially the cutting pressure is applied manually" and "cutter control is like a paintbrush stroke." Both in the Atelier Wen and RGM videos, there are clearly captured moments where the blade is lifted off the dial, or the rotation stops. Neither brand "leaves that to a fixed machine setting." These interruptions happen when there are decorative elements on the dial (e.g., small seconds, logos, etc.), and aside from these exceptions, there’s no reason to lift the blade unnecessarily.
You describe this as a "hand stroke," but perhaps it might help to consider a broader perspective. It feels like the differences you've highlighted are accurate but overly magnified. In both cases, the essential task—fixing the blade in place and moving the dial according to the pattern—is performed using a machine. This is machining work.
Atelier Wen adjusts the distance between the blade and the dial using a small handle lever on the right side of the machine, monitored visually on a screen, utilizing thread locking for precision. On the other hand, RGM pushes the blade carriage straight forward and views it closely through a loupe. What you’re referring to as the "hand stroke" seems to be more about the method of distance adjustment—one uses thread locking, and the other relies on the stability of a towel-padded surface. But neither is consistently applying hand pressure to carve.
If we were talking about a true "hand stroke," it would involve directly holding the blade and carving by hand. At this level, both are already compromising by relying on machine assistance. I don’t see why this should be regarded as a fundamental difference. After all, we’re not talking about a level of precision akin to East Asian Buddhist art or something similarly intricate.
Finally, regarding the 10 years of experience: it seems like you’re placing a lot of weight on this. But ultimately, this is a skill of the hands. For some, it might take 10 years; for others, 3 years. Cultural differences also play a role in how manual skills are mastered.
Less relevant impression. I don't own Atelier Wen watches, but seeing their video where they visit Swiss museums and have conversations with professionals there—with no significant objections being raised—makes me wonder if the difference you’re emphasizing is really as significant as you think.
That said, there’s likely still a difference in technical skill involved, which is why there’s a price disparity. RGM’s pieces go for over $10,000, as I’ve seen. I don’t know much, but it seems unlikely that just a Guilloche dial alone could justify such a price.
Thank you again for the reply and the discussion, it seems some points still need some clarification. So let me address your points directly:
1. The vintage machines are marvels of craftsmanship themselves, created by highly skilled artisans of the time. Their construction represents a level of engineering and precision that is difficult to replicate today as much of the knowhow is lost and the cost to create them to the same standard is prohibitive today as well. They were works of art beautifully shaped and finished in their own right. These machines didn’t replace traditional engraving but introduced a new decorative art form that still required immense skill to operate, complementing rather than displacing earlier methods.
2. Regarding "hand stroke," you are conflating the act of positioning the blade with the cutting process. In traditional guilloché, the cutting depth and pressure are actively controlled by the operator through their thumb on a spring-loaded cutting slide, which allows for fine adjustments in real time based on the material (there may be inconsistencies in material or flatness or adjustments needed as the cut progresses). This ensures uniformity, prevents issues like chatter, and allows smooth coordination with the rotation of the workpiece and fine adjustment and control of the final look of the cut.
3. The "interruptions" you referenced in Atelier Wen and RGM videos (e.g., lifting the blade for logos or sub-dials) are part of the manual operation, requiring the artisan to carefully navigate these areas and resume the pattern seamlessly. This highlights the operator’s role in managing the process, not automation or fixed settings. Yes AW has some but RGM's dials have a lot more complexity overall and different steps to create and finish them in a traditional way.
4. The 10-year figure reflects the traditional notion of mastery, where consistent practice leads to refined skill and fluency. While operation and simpler patterns can be learned in a few years perhaps, more complex designs involving intersecting patterns (or developing your own patterns) and challenging materials require significantly more time and experience. Mastery will also make the process smoother/quicker and less error prone so there is a lower rejection rate while maintaining a high precision and quality. Uniformity and a clean cut is takes many years of hands-on practice to achieve. The AW dials feature simple patterns and use a simpler softer material and the results don't reflect the work of a master or a particularly high quality rose engine like the vintage ones.
5. Regarding cost difference, obviously hourly wages in China are far lower than that of a master guillocheur in the US. So even if the exact effort and time was spent there would be a massive cost discrepancy. The intricacies of the dials is also a huge differentiator and RGM uses much higher quality and finished movements. So I don't think you can even compare and the price difference is fully justified in my opinion.
I hope this clears up the points and addresses your concerns. Let me know if any further clarification is needed on the above points.
Thank you for your detailed response. I think we’re approaching this topic from different perspectives and levels of immersion, which makes sense given your deep passion as a watch collector and my more casual interest. I can see why these nuances matter so much to you, but for me, I prefer to keep things simple and closer to a universal design language.
To be honest, the complexity of RGM’s Guilloche designs feels a bit overbalanced to me. It reminds me of some of the high-end complications coming out of China—like $100,000 tourbillons—where the emphasis seems to be more on making a statement about "Our country can do" craftsmanship rather than creating something universally appealing. That’s just my personal take, as a muggle, though, and I can see why others might appreciate the artistry and skill involved.
As for the cost differences, I completely agree with your point about labor and manufacturing in the US being a significant factor in pricing. For me, that’s where I see the biggest distinction, rather than the dial work alone.
I appreciate the insights you’ve shared—they’ve given me a better understanding of the intricacies involved, even if I might still lean toward a simpler view.
This discussion has actually shifted my perspective a bit. My initial thought was, “If Rolex can get away with doing this, why not AW?” But I can see now that the conversation vibe here and your deeper aesthetic understanding of watchmaking creates a completely different set of expectations. Thanks a lot!
Superb saturday-read! So many great points, explaining many aspects without «taking the piss». Made my day!
Also fyi i recently got served an ad on ig, a few weeks after this whole revolution wen debacle, where one of the founders of wen says his dials take 8 hours to make 🤪🤷♂️
Fantastic write up on one the of the areas of watch making that often doesn't get discussed enough. Just wanted to add if you want to see a library of different guilloche patterns, Sartory Billard has a section on his website called "The Art of Guilloche" which helped me learn a name to the many patterns that are out there
Well researched and written. Next time, an in depth dive on Moonswatches, perhaps??? 😉
Seriously considering this! 😅😉
Simple: you can't dive on the Moon. That's why it's a chronograph and not a diver
Loved it, ty boys. This newfound appreciation of guilloche is gonna be costly though, so f u too!!
Finally got to finishing this one. L, Substack format suits your style.. would love to see more here going forward!
I don't own a watch with a genuine guilloche dial yet, so this article is really useful to me. I was always wondering if the dial of the Rolex 1908 platinum was done by true rose engine, now I knew the answer. Thanks for all the time and effort by the author to put these info and research together. Excellent work!
A well written and researched article. This was very informative and I expanded my knowledge even further on this wonderful art form. Big thank you to A Watch Critic for the time and energy on this article. I full heartedly agree there needs to be more transparency from manufacturers to distinguish between the work done by hand versus machine only or machined assisted and the omissions in their marketing of how their dials, movements, etc are finished.
The omissions only create speculations and too often the media like to fill in the blanks with exaggerations. Again, job well done.
What a compelling read! "Thorough" doesn’t even begin to cover it. One of your most entertaining pieces, which is saying a lot. 👑💪🏿
It’s saying that I should give up writing and hand over to this guy lol
Thanks very much for the kind words, glad you enjoyed it! 🙏
Great article! Seems to me that the comparison between the lack of transparency and labelling in the watch industry is the same than in the food industry!
Indeed, in many industries some marketing or sales people have found ways to sell things like something authentic while shortcuts are found that take it further and further from the original meaning or perception and expectations of things. There are many comparable situations unfortunately, and ultimately they are often used as an excuse to overcharge and some cases dilutes the original craft or quality as consumers often struggle to appreciate the differences.
Fantastic deep dive! Very educational, thank you Watch Critic (don’t know how to tag here 🥲)
I love those new collaborations :D
Although tbh at the certain price point I was thinking that hand made is really a handmade - with a stichel.
And Shapiro’s Resurgence is just insane 🤯😍
Very in depth well written and thoroughly researched piece! Thanks to the author for the diligence required and for the host for providing and supporting the project! Was a great read and I’ll be looking forward to seeing more!
This is a great article bringing light to an increasingly common deception. Perhaps there needs a be an official designation for hand guilloche to make it easier for consumers to identify different types of dials. In addition to the stamped and CNC dials mentioned above, the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda PF was widely reported to have a guilloche dial, but this referred to a dial produced by CNC. It’s a nice dial and I like modern production, but that shouldn’t be called the same thing as a traditional term that referred to a different process.