SDC Weekly 115; Greubel Forsey, Oscillon, and Hand Made; Audemars Piguet, Between the Lines; Christopher Ward in SoHo
Exclusive Q&A with Michel Nydegger, Girard-Perregaux Debuts New Calibre, Free MB&F Watch, the Best Music Video of All Time, and more!
🚨 Welcome back to SDC Weekly! Apparently Gstaad Guy is now doing serious things… He recently interviewed AP CEO Ilaria Resta on his podcast. The timing is rather curious, to say the least… this dropped only days after Miss Tweed doubled down on rumours about Ilaria Resta’s impending departure from AP. Almost simultaneously, Business of Fashion published a rather glowing piece about AP’s sales growth and forthcoming Watches and Wonders participation. I mean, you gotta admire the choreography, even if the underlying issue remains a mystery! More on this later.
Before we go on, check this out - MB&F is giving away a free 20th Anniversary LM101 Longhorn, as detailed in their email to the tribespeople:
Admin note: The Unofficial Editor is unavailable this week; he said he’d edit this “in no time” but apparently that’s exactly how long he’s got, so click here to read this post online and ensure you see all corrections made after publishing.
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Estimated reading time: ~27 mins
🧐 Greubel Forsey, Oscillon, and Hand Made
I recently read a post by
about Oscillon Watches, which is a small Swiss workshop that claims to be making watches entirely by hand with old machines. Included in that post, was an interview with a quote that raised a few eyebrows (it’s paywalled, sorry!).
Essentially, when Cyrano Devanthey was asked how Oscillon’s approach differs from Greubel Forsey’s Hand Made series, he said:
“The big difference is really that we do all parts in house. We don’t have any external except for the parts I mentioned and the enamel dial. Otherwise, we do everything in our 100 square metres with four watchmakers and many of the of some. Some parts for the handmade from Greubel come from very skillful watchmakers and are handmade as well, but not necessarily all the skills are in-house. If you have CNC production on one side, and on the other side you have the handmade production, it is difficult to separate those two fields.”
What I took away was an implied separation problem between CNC and hand work, and a slight casting of shade on Greubel Forsey’s Hand Made programme. Michel Nydegger, CEO of Greubel Forsey, shared this initial response on his Instagram story the very same day:
“The big difference between a Michelin Star dinner and a microwave meal is that you can make a microwave meal in-house.”
At this point, everyone on Instagram spun up their microwaves to start popping some popcorn. The problem is, vague insinuations and pointed metaphors do not bring us closer to the truth; so I reached out to Mr. Nydegger and asked if he’d answer some questions about Greubel Forsey’s Hand Made programme. I am happy to report than Michel agreed, and rather than summarise, I will share it in full, below.
Q&A with Michel Nydegger
You compared your approach to “a Michelin Star dinner” versus Oscillon’s “microwave meal.” Can you explain what you meant by that?
What I was trying to say is that, while a home-cooked meal can be just as wonderful as a Michelin-star experience, I think in watchmaking we need to move past the obsession with doing everything in-house just for the sake of it. It’s more about collaboration, friendship, and pushing watchmaking forward together. No one does it all alone.
Do you think that making everything in-house actually produces inferior results, perhaps in the context of établissage?
At Greubel Forsey, we have a clear policy: if we can do something better in-house, we do it. But if a specialist can do it better, we’re happy to collaborate. It’s not about just saying everything is in-house; it’s about achieving the best quality through the best partnerships. We wouldn’t be where we are today without those collaborations.
If you do, what advantages do you see in working with specialist suppliers versus doing everything yourself?
The advantage is that some tasks require a huge amount of specialized expertise, and we aim to make the very best watches imaginable. That means working with people who can contribute their top-level skill where it makes sense. We can’t be the best at absolutely everything alone – and that’s okay.
Are there components where outsourcing actually produces better results than in-house production?
Of course! If we were to start making our own straps tomorrow, the result would definitely be inferior to that of our suppliers.
Ok, let’s talk more about handmade; what exactly do GF make by hand versus by machine? Can you give a detailed breakdown?
For us, “handmade” means a watch is of course hand-finished (as is the case for every Greubel Forsey timepiece), assembled by hand by a single watchmaker, and the parts are machined using hand-operated tools rather than automated CNC machines. We do allow ourselves modern measuring equipment and a motor for the machines, but it’s about doing as much by hand as possible to a significant degree – like 95% or more.
Now, there are parts that we didn’t do by hand, and we’ve shared that openly since the beginning. We didn’t do the sapphire crystals, the case gaskets, the spring bars, the mainspring, and we didn’t do most of the jewels by hand – although we did make the jewel for the power reserve indication of the Hand Made 2.
The reason we didn’t do the mainspring by hand, even though we did the hairspring (which is of course much more challenging), is that we wanted to build a handmade timepiece to standard Greubel Forsey quality. We were concerned that a handmade mainspring might tear under tension, so it was a deliberate choice to uphold our quality standards.
You touched on it briefly, but just to get a crystal clear response, when GF say “handmade,” what does that actually mean in your manufacture? Are we talking hand-filed, hand-turned, or hand-finished parts after the machine handles the heavy work? Or is it that the part has never touched a machine at all?
Handmade, for us, means the parts are machined using hand-operated tools such as a precision lathe, jig borer, pantograph for engravings, and traditional milling machines. Each operation is performed by a human, not by CNC code. It’s not that there’s no machinery – it’s that every tool is controlled by hand, not by automation.
Right, so to clear up any outstanding doubts, what role do CNC machines play in your Handmade series production, if any?
None. No CNC machines are used in our Handmade production.
So how does one draw the line between “handmade” and “machine-made,” given that most modern hand tools are still precision instruments?
There’s barely any object that is made using literally only your hands. A painter uses a brush, a sculptor uses a chisel. A watch requires specialised tools – the distinction is whether those tools are operated by a human or by a computer.
People say it’s impossible to achieve modern tolerances purely by hand. How do you respond to them?
It’s almost impossible!
You may have heard critics say the “handmade” label in luxury watchmaking has become meaningless marketing BS. What makes your handmade programme different from ‘standard’ production?
In a way, I think the handmade label has always been meaningless marketing BS – unless you’re clear about what you mean by it. That’s why we’re trying to be as transparent as possible.
Just one more clarification, which components do you source externally, and why?
We don’t source any handmade components externally. We do source straps, box and papers, and the components mentioned earlier.
Ok, moving on, have you seen any Oscillon handmade watches in person? What did you think?
Yes I have, they’re quite nice!
Oscillon’s founders claim they do “all parts in-house” and suggest GF outsource components. What’s your response to that?
For Hand Made 1, we were quite happy to share that we worked with local artisans on the project. It wasn’t about outsourcing – it was a collaborative project. For Hand Made 2, we actually do all the handmade parts ourselves, ironically.
You produce 40x more watches in total, than Oscillon’s five per year, but you only produce a handful of watches in the “Hand Made” series. Can you share how many you produce per year?
Today, we are able to build three Hand Made 2 timepieces per year.
Oscillon positions themselves as “traditional watchmaking at its purest.” How would you position Greubel Forsey’s approach?
We don’t position ourselves. We just try to make the best watches we can and have fun doing it.
Is there room for different definitions of “handmade” in modern watchmaking? Or do you think it should be a more strictly defined term?
There’s absolutely room for different definitions, and we don’t claim ours is the only right one. Ideally, everyone would be transparent about what their definition actually entails.
Wow, so what would you say to collectors who might be confused by these competing claims?
I totally get it! There’s a lot of noise out there and sometimes it’s difficult to distinguish fact from fiction.
If you heard someone say “Greubel Forsey’s handmade programme is just marketing, not actual hand-crafting,” what would your response be?
It’s actually kinda nice that there’s a debate about this now. When Robert Greubel and Stephen Forsey started out, no one was talking about hand-finishing. Now it’s one of the key benchmarks in high-end watchmaking. Same with hand watchmaking. If people are now arguing about how much is handmade, it means the conversation has evolved – and I think that’s a good thing.
What would you invite critics to come and see in your workshops to prove them wrong?
Well, we aren’t actually trying to prove anything to anyone. I was under the impression that we’d always been transparent about what our definition of handmade is, how many pieces we can make, etc. So what else are we supposed to prove?
Fair enough. Sorry for being pedantic, I have one more question if you don’t mind. How do you measure the “handmade-ness” of your watches against craft-operations like Oscillon? I am not saying these are comparable watches, I am simply trying to ascertain how people should interpret the framing.
I don’t think that “handmade-ness” should be a measure of anything. We build handmade watches because we have found that it is the best way to preserve traditional craft which isn’t taught anymore. Schools have a responsibility to teach their students skills that will be useful in their professional careers, but given that hand watchmaking is not an industry, there’s no reason to teach it. So we found that practising these skills and techniques is actually the best way to preserve them.
A great place to end this. Thanks, Michel!
P.S. If you can make it out there, the GF manufacture is worth visiting. I know Michel said they are not trying to prove anything to anyone, but if you go and see for yourself, you can ask all the questions you want to, and inform yourself enough to decide where you stand, rather than taking anyone else’s word for anything.
Concluding Thoughts
Look, let me start by saying I respect what Oscillon is doing; making watches entirely by hand with old machines is always going to be impressive, and their commitment to the craft is admirable. What I struggle with, is the narrative they’re pushing about Greubel Forsey.
The elephant in the workshop, so to speak, is that Oscillon stated:
“If you have CNC production on one side, and on the other side you have the handmade production, it is difficult to separate those two fields.”
This is, quite frankly, bollocks!
If I have a Ferrari and a bicycle in my garage, does the presence of a Ferrari somehow make it confusing whether I rode the bicycle to the shops? Does owning a dishwasher mean you can’t claim you hand-washed your plate today? The existence of one tool doesn’t create an obligation to use it for everything, nor does it create ambiguity about which tool you actually used.
When I asked Michel what role CNC machines play in Greubel Forsey’s Hand Made production, his answer was pretty straightforward:
“None. No CNC machines are used in our handmade production.”
Not “well, we try to minimise it.” or “we use them sparingly”; just flat-out “NO”. You can’t get much clearer than that. The CNC machines are in the building for their regular production, and they are simply not used for the Hand Made series.
Oscillon wants people to believe there is some ambiguity here, and then position themselves as offering something “purer” because everything branded “Oscillon” is made in-house with hand tools. Look, fair play to them, but Greubel Forsey has a clearly labelled HAND MADE product line. Where exactly is the confusion? Both brands have drawn clear lines. One says “if it’s branded Oscillon, it’s all in-house” and the other says “if it’s in the Hand Made series, it’s handmade.”
I see zero ambiguity. 🤷♂️
What bothers me is the attempt, intentional or otherwise, to influence collectors’ perceptions of another brand’s practices through vague insinuations instead of straightforward statements, not to mention the absence of any evidence. Oscillon should stick to making good watches and talking about their own processes, and let their work speak for itself.
You know who else built an entire successful brand entirely on collaboration? Max Büsser. MB&F is literally founded on the principle of working with other specialists for each component. Max openly celebrates his friends in the brand name, and partners are doing the actual watchmaking while he handles the marketing. He’s even built a tribe of devoted collectors who love and celebrate this approach.
So why does Oscillon seem to think collaboration is inferior?